18/09/2018 18:45
Navigation
· Home
· 2018 S15 Schedules
· Constitution
· Int. Selection Policy
· Playing Rules
· Drugs Policy
· Meetings
· Downloads
· SPA Contacts
· Site Rules
· Discussion Forum
· Contact Webteam
· Event Calendar (NEW)
IM Series
· 2018 IM Dates/Deadlines
· 2018 IM Area Draws
· 2018 IM Rankings
· 2017 IM Rankings
SPA Information
· 2018 Roll of Honour
· SPA Tour Rankings
· Ladies Tour
International Teams
· Mens
· Ladies
· Youths and Juniors
· Learning Difficulties
Member Leagues
· Affiliated Leagues
Other
· Photo Gallery
· Downloads
· Search
· Web Links
Users Online
· Guests Online: 17

· Members Online: 0

· Total Members: 2,192
· Newest Member: MyTSO
Forum Threads
Newest Threads
· 2018 SPA MM IM#5 Finals
· Corner Pocket Open
· 2018 S15's Draws & S...
· 2017 Accounts
· Pool/Snooker cues
Hottest Threads
· An Invite from th... [1120]
· challenge match n... [637]
· Riley's £10000 am... [430]
· Last Movie you wa... [390]
The Scottish Pool Association » General » General
Touching Ball Clarification
Username
Password
Register FAQ Members List Today's Posts Search

Print Thread

  Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 08-04-2018 07:43 PM (#1)

If a touching ball scenario exists and a player says that he will play away from it (as per the rule) and in executing the shot, the touching ball moves. Is that a Deliberate Foul or only 2 shots?
 
www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/linie/smiley-linie-010.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gif
User Avatar
The Islander
General Member


Posts: 323
Joined: 30.11.08
Location: EPA - H&C A
Age: 61

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: secretary, 08-04-2018 10:59 PM (#2)

B
secretary
General Member


Posts: 3191
Joined: 14.01.08
Location: Scotland

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: AllanONeil, 09-04-2018 09:32 AM (#3)

As far as I’m aware, if a player plays away from a touching ball and the touching ball moves because of an imperfection in the table I.e. rolls into the black spot then it’s not a foul, the player has played a legal shot.

If the touching ball moves because the player has not played “away” or touches the touching ball with cue or hand causing it to move then that is a foul and 2 shots awarded to their opponent.

Hope it helps mate
 
Partyboy
 
Edited by AllanONeil 09-04-2018 09:39 AM
User Avatar
AllanONeil
General Member


Posts: 95
Joined: 12.06.14
Location: Cumbernauld
Age: 30

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: maxi, 09-04-2018 09:45 PM (#4)

I don't think there is such a thing as imperfections in table cloth etc, if you play away and object ball moves it's a foul.
 
www.scottishpool.com/images/wc2.jpg
www.lastbidz.com
http://twitter.co...
SPA Scottish Doubles Champions 2013
World Champion 2012 (Scotland Seniors Team)
Strathclyde League Singles Champion 2012
Red Triangle Singles League Champion 2012
Superleague 11 & 15 Team Champions 2012 (Team G)
Superleague 11s Challenge Champions (captain)
World Speed Pool Seniors Champion 2010
Paisley Singles Champion 2010
European Masters Senior Team Champions 2010, 2011
Superleague 15's Champions Team G 2009
Belhaven Grand Final Champion 2007
maxi
Fingers crossed!


Posts: 15044
Joined: 06.04.10
Location: Glasgow
Age: 49

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: chalmers7, 09-04-2018 11:13 PM (#5)

It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul
chalmers7
General Member


Posts: 557
Joined: 12.07.12
Location: Dunfermline
Age: 28

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: derekd, 09-04-2018 11:25 PM (#6)

Can. I ask a separate question?///In an IM tie that was to take p!ace in a venue that didn't seem to suit a certain player and that player Forfeited the match (By telling the other p!layer to put himself forward;...can the player that forfeited suddenly decide hours before the deadline that he wants to play the match?.
derekd
General Member


Posts: 939
Joined: 14.01.08
Location: Dundee ,Edinburgh ,Paris and Forfar.
Age: 59

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 10-04-2018 01:04 PM (#7)

chalmers7 wrote:
It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul


Surely any movement of the ball being touched is classed as playing directly into it
 
www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/linie/smiley-linie-010.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gif
User Avatar
The Islander
General Member


Posts: 323
Joined: 30.11.08
Location: EPA - H&C A
Age: 61

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 10-04-2018 01:06 PM (#8)

If the consensus is that it is only a standard foul then I am OK to go with that. I just seem to remember this being clarified many years ago as a DF
 
www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/linie/smiley-linie-010.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gif
User Avatar
The Islander
General Member


Posts: 323
Joined: 30.11.08
Location: EPA - H&C A
Age: 61

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 10-04-2018 02:12 PM (#9)

chalmers7 wrote:
It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul


Just for clarification Kev. Assuming you mean loss of frame foul by deliberate foul. Apart from unsportsman conduct and the black being potted before your group of balls the only other loss of frame fouls are intentionally playing your opponents group or black first, or making no attempt to contact an 'on' ball.

Are we saying that playing directly into a touching ball in an obvious way, even when it is your group of balls, is considered making no attempt to contact an 'on' ball?
ColinS
General Member


Posts: 27
Joined: 27.10.11
Location: West Lothian
Age: 32

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Bapsley, 10-04-2018 11:55 PM (#10)

Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies
 
Terri Lapsley
Under 23, Youth and Junior Chairwoman
Scottish Pool Youth Academies Co-Ordinator
Bapsley



Posts: 317
Joined: 26.05.09
Location: Falkirk

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: knowledge, 11-04-2018 10:39 AM (#11)

While we are on the subject, does more than one ball have to be touching or is it just the White?
User Avatar
knowledge
General Member


Posts: 8256
Joined: 14.01.08
Age: 46

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 11-04-2018 11:49 AM (#12)

Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Cheers. I think I must be missing something simple. I didn't think that wording was still in the rules so for example according to below I could play my ball onto my opponents ball intentionally potting it without losing the frame.

"The player loses the frame if he:
(a) pockets the black ball on an illegal shot;
(Cool pockets the black ball on a shot that leaves any of his group of balls on the table;
(c) intentionally violates 6.2 Wrong Ball First; or
(d) does not attempt to hit a ball on.
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct will be penalized by loss of rack or other penalty depending on the nature of the conduct."
 
Edited by ColinS 11-04-2018 11:52 AM
ColinS
General Member


Posts: 27
Joined: 27.10.11
Location: West Lothian
Age: 32

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Mulson, 11-04-2018 12:26 PM (#13)

ColinS wrote:
Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Cheers. I think I must be missing something simple. I didn't think that wording was still in the rules so for example according to below I could play my ball onto my opponents ball intentionally potting it without losing the frame.

"The player loses the frame if he:
(a) pockets the black ball on an illegal shot;
(Cool pockets the black ball on a shot that leaves any of his group of balls on the table;
(c) intentionally violates 6.2 Wrong Ball First; or
(d) does not attempt to hit a ball on.
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct will be penalized by loss of rack or other penalty depending on the nature of the conduct."


That has never been a loss of frame foul. As long as you hit your own ball first, potting an opponents ball (other than the black) without pocketing your own ball is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.
Mulson



Posts: 1064
Joined: 15.01.08
Location: Falkirk

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: TNT, 11-04-2018 12:29 PM (#14)

It’s all in how ‘ball on’ is defined.

“Ball On
An object ball is said to be “on” when it is a legal target for the shooter. “

Touching ball is now not a legal target and can’t be played at directly or would be loss of frame.
 
Div 1 Super 11s Champions 2017 - Dundee A
Div 3 Super 11s Champions 2018 - Dundee B

Dave McLaren
SPA Referee
User Avatar
TNT
General Member


Posts: 884
Joined: 14.01.08
Location: Dundee
Age: 49

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 11-04-2018 12:29 PM (#15)

EDIT: Cheers Dave.
 
Edited by ColinS 11-04-2018 12:31 PM
ColinS
General Member


Posts: 27
Joined: 27.10.11
Location: West Lothian
Age: 32

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 12-04-2018 02:49 PM (#16)

Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Perfect and thanks
 
www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/linie/smiley-linie-010.gifwww.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-048.gif
User Avatar
The Islander
General Member


Posts: 323
Joined: 30.11.08
Location: EPA - H&C A
Age: 61

RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Citizen Smith, 19-04-2018 12:42 PM (#17)

derekd wrote:
Can. I ask a separate question?///In an IM tie that was to take p!ace in a venue that didn't seem to suit a certain player and that player Forfeited the match (By telling the other p!layer to put himself forward;...can the player that forfeited suddenly decide hours before the deadline that he wants to play the match?.



No
 
Down with tyrannical dictatorships beathorsecard
Death to Ming !!!
User Avatar
Citizen Smith



Posts: 190
Joined: 16.10.09
Location: edinburgh

Options
Jump to Forum:
Forum powered by fusionBoard
Share this Thread
URL:
BBcode:
HTML:
Login
Username

Password



Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Events
<< September 2018 >>
Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

18/09/2018
I take it that their is no dress code for the 15s qualifiers folks

14/09/2018
Will the draw for 15s play-offs be done this week? Only 3 weeks away .

11/09/2018
Cheers bash, the deadline for Supers payments is now behind us, can't the draw be done sooner? Ta

10/09/2018
IM5 online now. Supers will likely be a couple of weeks

10/09/2018
When are IM5 and Super 15s playoff draws being announced? Cheers! Smile

10/09/2018
when is the draw being done for IM5? tyvm

10/09/2018
Sorry according to the rep all is good Smile

10/09/2018
I hope East Kilbride sent Im 5 results via a different source but They are Alex Campbell,Grant McNairn , Mark O'Brien

04/09/2018
Good at what he does but defo not a people person.

04/09/2018
I wouldny bother Davy Watson. Every question gets a smart arse comment from the Secretary.

Render time: 0.36 seconds Original theme by Nick Jones Modyfied into Gillette_Blue by Harly 66,845,237 unique visits