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The Scottish Pool Association » General » General
Touching Ball Clarification
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  Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 08-04-2018 07:43 PM (#1)

If a touching ball scenario exists and a player says that he will play away from it (as per the rule) and in executing the shot, the touching ball moves. Is that a Deliberate Foul or only 2 shots?
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: secretary, 08-04-2018 10:59 PM (#2)

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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: AllanONeil, 09-04-2018 09:32 AM (#3)

As far as I’m aware, if a player plays away from a touching ball and the touching ball moves because of an imperfection in the table I.e. rolls into the black spot then it’s not a foul, the player has played a legal shot.

If the touching ball moves because the player has not played “away” or touches the touching ball with cue or hand causing it to move then that is a foul and 2 shots awarded to their opponent.

Hope it helps mate
 
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Edited by AllanONeil 09-04-2018 09:39 AM
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: maxi, 09-04-2018 09:45 PM (#4)

I don't think there is such a thing as imperfections in table cloth etc, if you play away and object ball moves it's a foul.
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: chalmers7, 09-04-2018 11:13 PM (#5)

It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: derekd, 09-04-2018 11:25 PM (#6)

Can. I ask a separate question?///In an IM tie that was to take p!ace in a venue that didn't seem to suit a certain player and that player Forfeited the match (By telling the other p!layer to put himself forward;...can the player that forfeited suddenly decide hours before the deadline that he wants to play the match?.
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 10-04-2018 01:04 PM (#7)

chalmers7 wrote:
It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul


Surely any movement of the ball being touched is classed as playing directly into it
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 10-04-2018 01:06 PM (#8)

If the consensus is that it is only a standard foul then I am OK to go with that. I just seem to remember this being clarified many years ago as a DF
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 10-04-2018 02:12 PM (#9)

chalmers7 wrote:
It is only a deliberate foul if a player plays directly onto a touching ball. Anything other than this is a standard foul


Just for clarification Kev. Assuming you mean loss of frame foul by deliberate foul. Apart from unsportsman conduct and the black being potted before your group of balls the only other loss of frame fouls are intentionally playing your opponents group or black first, or making no attempt to contact an 'on' ball.

Are we saying that playing directly into a touching ball in an obvious way, even when it is your group of balls, is considered making no attempt to contact an 'on' ball?
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Bapsley, 10-04-2018 11:55 PM (#10)

Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: knowledge, 11-04-2018 10:39 AM (#11)

While we are on the subject, does more than one ball have to be touching or is it just the White?
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 11-04-2018 11:49 AM (#12)

Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Cheers. I think I must be missing something simple. I didn't think that wording was still in the rules so for example according to below I could play my ball onto my opponents ball intentionally potting it without losing the frame.

"The player loses the frame if he:
(a) pockets the black ball on an illegal shot;
(Cool pockets the black ball on a shot that leaves any of his group of balls on the table;
(c) intentionally violates 6.2 Wrong Ball First; or
(d) does not attempt to hit a ball on.
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct will be penalized by loss of rack or other penalty depending on the nature of the conduct."
 
Edited by ColinS 11-04-2018 11:52 AM
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Mulson, 11-04-2018 12:26 PM (#13)

ColinS wrote:
Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Cheers. I think I must be missing something simple. I didn't think that wording was still in the rules so for example according to below I could play my ball onto my opponents ball intentionally potting it without losing the frame.

"The player loses the frame if he:
(a) pockets the black ball on an illegal shot;
(Cool pockets the black ball on a shot that leaves any of his group of balls on the table;
(c) intentionally violates 6.2 Wrong Ball First; or
(d) does not attempt to hit a ball on.
6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct will be penalized by loss of rack or other penalty depending on the nature of the conduct."


That has never been a loss of frame foul. As long as you hit your own ball first, potting an opponents ball (other than the black) without pocketing your own ball is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: TNT, 11-04-2018 12:29 PM (#14)

It’s all in how ‘ball on’ is defined.

“Ball On
An object ball is said to be “on” when it is a legal target for the shooter. “

Touching ball is now not a legal target and can’t be played at directly or would be loss of frame.
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: ColinS, 11-04-2018 12:29 PM (#15)

EDIT: Cheers Dave.
 
Edited by ColinS 11-04-2018 12:31 PM
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: The Islander, 12-04-2018 02:49 PM (#16)

Bapsley wrote:
Colin - all deliberate fouls are loss of frame.

The rules state "failing to make a bona fide attempt to play a legal shot" is a deliberate foul therefore if you play into a ball which you are touching this would fall under this category.

And to answer the first question - if it is a touching ball, you play away and the ball moves it is a standard foul. One free shot plus one visit.

Hope this clarifies


Perfect and thanks
 
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RE: Touching Ball Clarification
by: Citizen Smith, 19-04-2018 12:42 PM (#17)

derekd wrote:
Can. I ask a separate question?///In an IM tie that was to take p!ace in a venue that didn't seem to suit a certain player and that player Forfeited the match (By telling the other p!layer to put himself forward;...can the player that forfeited suddenly decide hours before the deadline that he wants to play the match?.



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